Hace dos años, el contador chaqueño Ivan Sasovsky organizó un brindis de fin de año de su estudio, Sasovsky & Asociados, en La Dolfina Polo Bar, en Palermo Chico. Ya le iba muy bien. Pero este 16 de diciembre, a sus 35 años, armó un fiestón en Parque Norte, en el mismo salón donde días antes se había reunido la Unión Industrial Argentina (UIA). A la entrada recibía y se retrataba con los invitados, incluidos los periodistas Diego Leuco, Cristina Pérez y Fernando Niembro, contadores y empresarios de bajo perfil, fotos que después se difundieron por Infobae o la revista Noticias. Mientras circulaban los tragos, los sandwichs de pernil y las cazuelitas de ñoquis, se anunció que su nuevo grupo, Expansion (sin acento, en inglés), había abierto en pandemia sedes en Montevideo, Madrid y Miami, sedes desde donde atiende a sus clientes millonarios emigrados a Uruguay, España o Estados Unidos.

But all the guests were surprised when he broke into the center of the Mora Godoy scene and his company.Sasovsky, who learned to dance tango when he came to live in Buenos Aires, was pleasure that she took him to the track.Then a trip to Bora Bora, in French Polynesia, was raffled, and honored the highlights in the fight against COVID-19 Gonzalo Pérez Marc. To the end it was known that he was going to play a group that was going to make everyone dance: In the previous weeks the guests had had to vote between agapornis, the totora or the authentic decadent.He won the Cucho Parisi band and so they sounded "crazy (your form of being)", "Vení Raquel" or "Los Piratas".From his vacation in Punta del Este, Sasovsky spoke by Zoom with Eldiarioar.

What happened between 2019 and 2021 that grew so much?

Expansion es una idea que ya se viene madurando hace bastantes años. De hecho, la primera Expansion que surge como un spin off (escisión) de Sasovsky & Asociados tenía la intención de crear un fondo para hacer inversiones en Vaca Muerta para inversores que no conocían el mercado. Eso se hizo en 2018. Luego, cuando se produce el cambio de gobierno, el proyecto Vaca Muerta pasa a no ser de interés para los inversores extranjeros. Ese proceso quedó medio trunco, pero siguió la idea de abrir nuevas oportunidades, nuevas ventanas para recibir la demanda de nuestros clientes, porque ellos mismos nos pedían vehículos de inversión o algún tipo de servicio que no entraba dentro de la estructura de Sasovsky & Asociados. A su vez, en 2019, con el cambio de gobierno, nosotros habíamos decidido ya asociarnos con un socio uruguayo, íbamos a abrir una oficina. Eso funciona súper bien. Durante la pandemia, la firma en Montevideo se consolidó y en julio de este año, a raíz de las alianzas internacionales que tenemos, con representación en más de 40 países, se presentó la posibilidad, por la demanda de nuestros clientes, de abrir nuestra oficina propia en Madrid. Y ahí es cuando la expansión regional pega un salto en la puerta de entrada a Europa. Luego, bajo el mismo sistema, con las alianzas que teníamos en Estados Unidos, empezamos a trabajar en Miami, que es uno de los destinos de inversión que tienen nuestros clientes. Y no es que sólo crecemos de manera horizontal abriendo sucursales en distintos países, sino a nivel servicios, con un diferencial respecto al resto de los estudios. Trabajamos bajo la perspectiva general de la optimización en todo sentido, la optimización fiscal, la optimización financiera, la optimización de recursos mediante la implementación de tecnología y todo eso dio lugar a que se vayan creando servicios en todas las sucursales. Tenemos Expansion Capital, que interviene en el mercado de valores, realiza arbitrajes con la posibilidad de, por ejemplo, conseguir financiación o la mejor salida de un vehículo (financiero) al mercado. Queremos mejorar el precio que te ofrecen por tu ahorro el resto de nuestros competidores. Es una ALYC (agente de liquidación y compensación) en plena constitución pero ya estamos trabajando en arbitrajes para la compraventa de títulos, valores, obligaciones negociables y demás. Expansion Future es un proyecto en el que ya intervienen ingenieros en lo que es la aplicación de tecnología a los distintos negocios. La transformación digital de los negocios es una necesidad. Si aplicando la tecnología, luego de realizada la inversión, se genera una ganancia, nosotros participamos.

Who are your partners and how many employees do they have?

Expansion is organized as a center based in Argentina that provides accounting, legal, financial and other services to the rest of the different branches.Today we are several partners: Diego Fraga in Expansion Argentina joined in the legal area;Uruguay Expansion, Federico Otegui, who is a recognized accountant in Uruguay and with an interesting academic profile;In Spain, Daniela Reyes;In Miami we have two collaboration agreements with two different signatures;and in expansion capital, Germán Stel;In expansion Future, Nicolás Kovalsky.More than 60 professionals work in all branches.

You put all that coming from Las Breñas, a city of 28,000 inhabitants of Chaco, and with only 36 years ...

Yes, I was born in Las Breñas, Chaco, on October 18, 85, in a colony of immigrants who arrived in the interwar period and after World War II. More than 19 collectivities in a town that was at the time a cotton pole of the country. I have a Bulgarian grandfather, a Ukrainian, one Polish and another Spanish. That is, a mixture, but with the focus of being a very entrepreneurial person. At 16 he gave dance classes, Axé, Brazilian music, a very commercial product. Then, I came to study accountant to Buenos Aires and started working very young in taxes, without having yet taid taxes. I went through known studies on the market and ended my career entering Techint with the perspective of "here I retire." The editorial was summoned by the law to write a book on income tax when I was 24 years old. It was my letter of presentation. When it was published, in Techint they called me and told me: "Look, here there are people who will have priority before a profile as growing as you." It was like the invitation to think about something different since in that place it was going to be difficult to grow and I ended up independent with my own study in 2014.

Where I study?

I received myself in 2008. I studied the first year in Corrientes and then came here and finished the race at Kennedy University.The following year I started the master's degree in the UBA (University of Buenos Aires).After the publication of the book, my academic part began.Say classes in degree and postgraduate in the UBA.My academic activity was going to be my letter of introduction.I started traveling to international congresses and made a super big networking network when we were in the Government of Cristina (Fernández de Kirchner).I started traveling to Mexico uninterruptedly.I went to do the postgraduate expert in international taxation at the University of Santiago de Compostela.The director of that career came to the party, César García Novoa.I became known outside and with the arrival of (Mauricio) Macri to the government, the borders open a little and the foreign investment begins to arrive.

Do you continue with your academic activity?

I left my teaching activity to dedicate myself to the commercial part.

How did you organize your end of the year toast at the Dolfina Polo Bar to build a fiestón two years later with Mora Godoy and the authentic decadent?

I have to tell you that the launch of Expansion has to do with the fact that we had been going very well, but also with taking advantage of the public knowledge that our partners have, both from Montevideo and Madrid, and the opening of the offices in the United States.All that was cooking for a long time.This event in Pandemia could not be done.We have worked very intensely during pandemic and growth was really unexpected.Our clients, either by decision to leave Argentina or by decision to reach Argentina, or by the gap between the different exchange rates, generated different business opportunities.That allowed the growth that you saw and this launch was planned as a blow of effect.We are more than satisfied with the results and also the party was very fun, all the people were super happy.

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Why do the rich go to live abroad?For the political change of 2019, for the increase of personal goods?

And the contribution of wealth.

Of course, the extraordinary contribution of the great fortunes.

And Uruguay's competition.

Exact.You also chose Madrid and Miami, two other destinations to move the tax residence, although most went to Uruguay.But let's say you grew up taking advantage of this move from millionaires.

Yes, no doubt.It was the kick.But we still bet on Argentina.The professional quality provided from Argentina is validated by the branches that we have outside.Argentina became a very high quality services center.Obviously, by the process of devaluation of the currency, it is much cheaper to have human resources here than in the rest of the world.That makes us more competitive in the face of the other firms with which we compete.In addition, Argentina has a tradition of very good, very well formed counters, of the best in the region, even with permanent training.Having so many taxes and so many information and withholding regimes makes us extremely flexible when learning, with which any tax regime of any part of the world can be learned by an Argentine.Without a doubt.

Why do Millionaires go and why are there people who come to do business to Argentina?

The two questions are very easy to answer. Why are the people of Argentina? It goes due to the lack of security in every way: legal certainty, personal security, economic security. And the opportunities that occur in Argentina today have to do clearly with exchange unfolding and liquefy of wages in our country. They are the two factors that make a foreign investment have a performance, even despite the very high fiscal pressure. But they are investors who know the country, who know the risks and are accustomed to playing with fire. Because the rest unfortunately drives away. And we see it throughout Latin America. Before the release of expansion in Argentina we were touring Miami and Colombia. I was at an International Congress of Jurists in Barranquilla in early December. He participated from the King of Spain to the President (Iván Duque). And there was talk, for example, in Colombia of the clause (Gustavo) Petro (candidate for the presidential elections of 2022) for the contracts because if he wins a populist government government or whatever, they will have to be negotiated. There is a fear by the private investor to what happens with the political process throughout Latin America. He passed with Peru, goes with Chile.

Gabriel Buric says he will bet on the Pacific Alliance, but now the Pacific Alliance is no longer from right -wing governments but with Andrés Manuel López Obrador in Mexico, Pedro Castillo in Peru and eventually Petro in Colombia ...

Yes, exactly.We always bet that the only way to generate wealth is with private investment, that is, the State never generates wealth.This vision obviously at any time we have our foot in the countries you just named.Hopefully it is so, we are already working in that sense, since somehow both the experience of Venezuela and that of Argentina end up being anticipatory of what can happen in those countries, right?

We will see.Each country has its peculiarities.But I wanted to ask him about another of the reasons for expansion growth.You mentioned the parallel exchange rate.In what sense?

In the sense that an investment that enters dollars as capital contribution can be sold in cash with liquidation (smile) and taxes are paid to the official exchange rate (smile).To that unfolding I referred to me, not that of Blue, obviously.

Of course, of course.

To the gaps that are generated between one thing and the other, it is twice almost (smile).

Why do the rich to Uruguay go, where assets are similar to those of Argentina?

What happens is that the tax burden is only for the goods and for the profits obtained within Uruguay himself.That is, it is expensive for the Uruguayans, but not for the investments they have outside the country.

And why to Spain, where many taxes are paid too?

Yes, but the issue with Spain is that the Patrimony Tax exists only in some communities.In Madrid it does not exist and that is important for people with high heritage.And after the pandemic people relocate anywhere and provide services from anywhere, which is what happened in Miami with all the emigration from California and from the state of New York, which made a real estate bubble.Pandemia allows us to be anywhere, offer services in any other and pay taxes anywhere else.This lag between subject, heritage and activity makes everything possible in some way and that Uruguay's option for foreigners is like an oasis in the middle of a desert of fiscal voracity.

The Pandora Papers showed that with offshore societies they manage them the same to pay less, by means of evasion or fiscal elusion, that is, illegally or legally.Also now with cryptocurrencies.

Offshore societies do not end in any case, being for simple existence, efficient vehicles, but have to be given in the framework to avoid taxes or plan to prosecute. If in Argentina, for example, I have a society that does not have employees and that has passive income abroad, that society is considered little transparent or the existence of society is unknown, no matter how much an 80 chain of 80 has in the middle Societies, equal income is taxed in Argentina. I differentiate that from the topic topic, which is under international discussion. The system itself makes the response to how crypto will come from the sector itself. It is beyond the reach of the different governments, of the different countries and that makes it difficult to think how they can get to pay. What, from the Argentine point of view, the possession of crypts is taxed both in personal goods and in the income tax, because it is an asset. I have no way to get it out of the sworn declaration of the tax if it is not justifying the acquisition of other types of goods or consuming a melon. There are many people who in Argentina particularly and in the rest of the world they still do not know the effects of crypto possession, but under any point of view it is today something that is not taxed by taxes.

No, it is true, but when one enters silver in a bank there is a traceability, but the authorities only find out when you enter the crypto world and from there it is like a black box where nobody finds out what happens with money.

What you are considering is something that is presented as a problem worldwide.What happens is that the relative values of the different currencies do not have real economic use.When that begins to happen, you will be able to justify the use of these assets or the manifestation of wealth if you do not come by declaring them.It is a bit what happened before money laundering with the people who had unstalled accounts: although they were out of reach of the treasury, you could not use them either.The bulk at some point you have to justify it.The taxpayer's own life is a limit to evasion through crypto.

If I had to make a tax reform in Argentina, what taxes would go down and which would go up or where would inspection and control improve?

Look, the collection for inspection in Argentina is less than 1%, so there is nothing to do there.All taxes of a distortive nature must be eliminated, those that fall directly on prices, because they are inflation taxes.The first thing that would eliminate is the Gross Income Tax, without a doubt.But all within a logic of an expense cut or a limit to the monetary issuance.Because, otherwise, no tax leave is sustainable.For example, do not replace employees who retire or withdraw.Other countries have done it very successfully, even within the limitations of international agreements.For example, Ireland within the European Union: tied to the euro, knew how to make a tax decline and grow the economy without being able to issue.

And should not compensate for consumer taxes with other taxes or more inspections?

No, the collection today is based on VAT, in advances of the income tax, which would compensate with a removal of superfluous spending, Argentina has a lot to cut there.We must cut the expenses that are unnecessary in an impoverished country such as Argentina.

Ar