Si no fue un lanzamiento de su candidatura para 2023, se le pareció demasiado. La gira por la costa atlántica que hizo Patricia Bullrich la semana pasada estuvo llena de señales de que no se trató de un viaje más de la titular del PRO. Visitó ciudades llenas de turistas en plena temporada veraniega, acompañada sólo por dirigentes de su sector, con recorridas típicas de las campañas y charlas cuya escenografía fueron banners que llevaban su foto y las leyendas “La fuerza del cambio” y “Patricia en tu lugar”.

Aun así, en el diálogo con Infobae -mientras viajaba hacia uno de sus destinos- negó el sesgo proselitista de su gira y dijo que “este año no es para hablar de candidaturas sino para acercarse a la gente”. No sólo desmintió su lanzamiento sino que inclusó se mostró crítica al hablar del comienzo del armado político de Horacio Rodríguez Larreta para 2023: “Si decidió tener una mesa nacional para su candidatura es una decisión de él.I do not share to advance these times. El 2022 es una construcción colectiva de Juntos por el Cambio y del PRO.To each place I am going, I work at the tables of together for the change to organize ourselves. Ganamos en muchos lugares y es necesario mantener esa organización sin adelantar ninguna interna. Así que no voy a formar ninguna mesa”.

En la charla, Bullrich insistió en los “cambios” que le hacen falta a la Argentina con reiteradas apelaciones a “la valentía” y “el coraje” necesarios.It does not seem accidental. Lo cree y también es una forma de destacar que ella tiene esos atributos en contraste con la moderación del jefe de Gobierno porteño y su pensamiento más proclive a negociar que a confrontar. Como cuando les dijo a empresarios en Punta del Este que “no hay lugar para tibios en la Argentina que viene”. Ella lo descartó: “Es una apelación mucho más profunda. Es una apelación a cómo se tiene que parar un gobierno, un equipo, una sociedad.It is not for a person, it is for everyone ". Para que no queden dudas, advirtió: “Yo no compito contra Larreta sino contra los que no quieren hacer cambios”.

Donde no hay interpretación posible es cuando habla sobre el Gobierno: lo critica impiadosamente, como cuando habla sobre el acuerdo con el Fondo Monetario Internacional (FMI) o la marcha contra la Corte. Allí sí aparece en pleno vuelo su condición de “halcón”. ¿Le alcanzará para convertirse en la candidata presidencial en 2023? Aunque aún no se lanzó oficialmente, la ex ministra de Seguridad confirmó que mantendrá en alto su intransigencia. Por algo admitió que ese camino es el que también le marca el electorado: “Yo nunca vi un monitoreo social tan fuerte sobre la dirigencia, cómo leen cada letra del contrato como si hubiéramos escrito en esta elección una Constitución con la gente.And they tell us: ‘They do not move away a millimeter of that Constitution’. Y eso se nota, cada persona con la que te cruzás te dice: ‘Vayan por el camino que nosotros votamos, no se aparten de ahí'”.

- For the National Bureau of Together for Change, the agreement with the IMF announced by the Government is "positive", but they will wait to know the small print.Obviously, they do not trust the negotiated.

— En realidad, es un principio de acuerdo porque todavía no conocemos absolutamente nada de su contenido.There is a certain contradiction between what the president says and what begins to know each other.

- For example?

- The drop in deficit.That implies doing things, but how are they going to do them?What are they going to play?They are answers that are not and that is why we cannot have an opinion. Las palabras del Presidente son vacías de contenido.He doesn't tell the truth.The truth is that if you have to lower the deficit, how do you lower it?How do you stop the broadcast?What about inflation, currency, the dollar?All topics that are a great question sign.We will have to see the letter of intention with the background.

- What black hole are in Alberto Fernández and Minister Martín Guzmán?

— Hay contradicciones.Subsidies grow this year almost 3.000 millones de dólares y te dicen que no los van a tocar, pero, por otro lado, el Fondo dice otra cosa.That is why (together for change) we get a brief statement waiting to know what are the measures they plan to take to fulfill the minimum things that Guzmán said.We do not want to prejudge.We want to know.

- Until the ads this Friday, the government had tried a meeting of Minister Guzmán with you, but finally did not materialize.How did negotiations with the IMF handle the ruling?

— Hubo mucha pérdida de tiempo, mucha ineficiencia. Por algo nos invitaron a una reunión para mostrarnos un PowerPoint y nunca hablar en serio.I don't know if they have a plan on how to get out.One day exports close, the next day they open them for the meat and not for the rest.Companies close because they cannot import.So this plan is anti-production, anti-work. ¿La negociación con el Fondo en qué consiste? ¿En que te den la plata para pagar y no crecer y seguir con inflación y “vamos que vamos”?

- How does the march against the Court qualify that Kirchner sectors will make on February 1?

— Es un apriete del Gobierno al máximo tribunal, avalado por el presidente de la Nación porque no le gustan sus decisiones.Marching against the court is the most antirrepublicano I have seen.You have to defend our institutions, take out the failures that take. A nosotros nos tocó una Corte que nos sacó un fallo al tercer día de asumir por el que teníamos que pagar a todas las provincias un porcentaje altísimo.It is so. La Corte es permanente y los gobiernos, no, y así funcionan los gobiernos republicanos.And those who do not believe in the Republic make marches against the Court.

- You were touring the Atlantic coast all week and seemed in campaign for 2023.Did you have launched for the presidency?

— No, esta es la gira de la presidenta del PRO que cree y que tiene la convicción de que es necesario estar en cada lugar, en el lugar de cada ciudadano y también estar en el lugar de los problemas que tiene cada uno. Conocer las necesidades de cada ciudadano es muy importante.I don't think this is a year to talk about candidacies but to approach people.We open a page so that people can write down, write their ideas, or you can do it for any of my social networks.This was a job that we started in 2020 by Zoom, with a participation of 10,000 people and now we are starting a new task because I want the PRO to take the Together's Table for the change not only the look of the technicians but aStrong social gaze.

- It may not be a candidate time, but to start arming politically for next year, which is what you are doing with this tour and what Horacio Rodríguez Larreta is also doing, which has already inaugurated a national table for your projectpresidential.Will you face the head of government in the Paso or do you think they will reach an agreement?

— Si (Rodríguez Larreta) decidió tener una mesa nacional para su candidatura es una decisión de él.I do not share to advance these times.2022 is a collective construction of together for change and the pro. A cada lugar al que voy trabajo en las mesas de Juntos por el Cambio para que nos organicemos.We won in many places and it is necessary to maintain that organization without advancing any internal.So I'm not going to form any table.Of course, all those who accompany me, who are members of the PRO, work to have more and more ideas and more action so that together for change it has more territoriality. En relación a si va a haber o no PASO, esa es una decisión ya tomada por la Mesa Nacional y además está en nuestra legislación: en Juntos por el Cambio va a haber PASO entre aquellos que en el momento en que haya decisión decidan ser candidatos. No quiero adelantar eso porque hoy la prioridad es organizarnos, tener más territorialidad y armar el programa de gobierno.

- Why would you be a better presidential candidate than Rodríguez Larreta?

— Yo no estoy hablando de candidaturas, estoy hablando del proyecto. Creo que la Argentina necesita un cambio contundente, fuerte, que desafíe al poder de las mafias, de las trabas, de los cotos.The power that makes a businessman, a merchant, has to pay much higher costs than in another country in the world.Expensive prices for people, labor problems, problems of a totally regressive social policy.The need to have a reasonable tax base and not like the one we have.A state that is efficient and not the current state that is an agglomeration of functions, many of them that are not important or priority for citizens.And all this leads you to say this to do it in a very specific way.The first thing we have to put is that project of change, transformation, with courage, with courage to face what we have to face. Esas características que las puede tener hoy el votante de Juntos por el Cambio, que se acerca y te dice “la Argentina sale con coraje, no sale con acuerdos corporativos”.Who represents that will be the best represents together for change.

- Do you think Rodríguez Larreta does not represent that courage that is needed?Because you before a group of entrepreneurs in Punta del Este said that "there is no place for warm in Argentina that comes" and it was understood as an allusion to the Head of Government.

— No voy a hablar de nombres.Everyone knows where he is standing, how he thinks things. Sé lo el país necesita para salir adelante y creo que en cada lugar al que voy estoy generando una movilización de la sociedad en torno de esto.It is the message that I give to all our people to organize, so that we know that we have to win in intentions, that we have to win spaces, that we have to fight it.And also to tell people that in the next government the fight to defend our changes has to be of the whole society.The one who thinks otherwise that the sayo is put alone, I will not put it.

- Was the reference to the "warm" not addressed to Rodríguez Larreta?

— Es una apelación mucho más profunda.It is an appeal to how you have to stop a government, a team, a society.It is not for a person, it is for everyone.Because from the Argentine of decline you get out of effort and courage. Y eso no pasa sólo por una persona.This idea of a leader or someone who saves us, does not exist.Here there must be a mobilized team and society.I am calling that.And the one who does not encourage, the one who says you can't, I don't encourage me, well ... that's why I say: there is no place for warm.

- From your contacts with businessmen, do you feel that the red circle prefers Rodríguez Larreta before you?

- I talk to entrepreneurs every day and I consider that all are entrepreneurs, those in the red circle and those who have a bowling alley or a hotel in Villa Gesell.They are all entrepreneurs and we need them all.And they know that we are going to a decline that goes down a slide or a very competitive exit of open capitalism that takes them into account.This is what the country needs. La mirada de lucha que le puse al partido y que fue la que ganó las elecciones es la que ven los empresarios porque no quieren seguir como están y necesitan un cambio.We will see if they have preference for someone.I do not compete against Larreta but against those who do not want to make changes.Even against the anguish of a society that is afraid, that he thinks that cannot be.Those are my adversaries.

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— ︎ ︎A.A. Mon Jun 21 09:45:35 +0000 2021

- Before a scenario of a confrontation with the Head of Government in Las Paso, how do you compete against the famous Buenos Aires apparatus that the Radicals Facundo Manes and Gerardo Morales spoke in the last campaign?

- Politics today has a lot to do with communication with society and has many forms where any device, and I don't want to refer to that of the city, it can be overcome.We have seen it in these last elections, overcoming government devices such as those of the provinces where we win or tie, such as San Luis, Salta, Chaco, Misiones. Con convicción y un proyecto claro se le puede ganar a cualquier aparato gubernamental. La sensación que tienen los argentinos que no podemos seguir en esta decadencia, que tenemos que salir, que tenemos que abrir a la Argentina a la posibilidad de competir, de tener empresas, de tener un Estado adecuado a las necesidades de la sociedad y no un Estado al que la sociedad tenga que bancar a costa de su propio trabajo, de impuestos altísimos.Argentina must be turned and the Argentines will support that change every day.Is not easy.But the effort has revenues because the road is to leave the decline and start having a much richer Argentina in every way.That path will be with effort, with popular participation and fighting.They are not going to give us anything the mafias or the groups entrenched in power.We have lived it with the 14 tons of stones in Congress (when the pension reform was discussed in 2017).We will have millions of Argentines against those 14 tons of stones to break them and move on.They will not stop us.

- They say that Mauricio Macri asked a group of leaders of the PRO: "We support Patricia, it is very important that he arrives with possibilities at 2023 ″.Do you feel supported in this way by the former president for a candidacy in 2023?

— Mauricio es de todos.It is one of all the militants of the PRO and is a figure that everything together for the change has to take care.So Mauricio has to work for the whole, for this great coalition that we have managed to maintain.I don't want to ask for anything.Yes I want me to support me as President of the PRO because it is important to open these paths to assemble the tables of together for the change in each place, so that each group prioritizes the social and not internal.That is this year's homework and I want me to help me.

- Do you believe Macri when he says he will not compete for the presidency in 2023?

— Nadie tiene que hablar de la Presidencia en el 2023 y él tampoco. Mauricio está en una tarea de tratar de comprender profundamente, y eso lo ha hecho: leí su libro por segunda vez para comprender qué cosas hay que hacer distintas para que no vuelva a suceder lo que nos sucedió. No creo que él esté pensando en el 2023.

- How should it be extended together for the change to win the next elections?You point to the liberal vote through an agreement with Javier Milei, while Rodríguez Larreta prefers to add sectors of Peronism and dispute the center.

— Cuando hay peronistas que tienen las ideas claras, Juntos por el Cambio los tiene que ir a buscar, como fue el caso de Miguel Ángel Pichetto.One thing is not contradictory to the other.And also those who today have opened the space of young libertarians, which seems important to me, you have to look for them.Our main task today is not among leaders but in the construction of social trust. Una confianza social que nos mide todos los días.In every step you take, every moment, every statement, you have 10 million people who are measuring you.It is impressive, I never saw such a strong social monitoring about the leadership, how they read each letter of the contract as if we had written in this election a constitution with people.And they tell us: "They do not move away a millimeter of that Constitution".And that shows, each person with whom you cross in each place tells you: "Go along the way we vote, do not depart from there".So that's the main task.And there we will find libertarians, with...But those who are found have to be on that path.The one who leaves that path generates problems because they leave there, vote against, end up entering together for the change and leaving. Ese compromiso, ese contrato que hemos sellado con millones de argentinos, es nuestro camino para el 2022.

- In this assembly you recently included Sergio Berni?Do you see it together for the change?

- I did not include it.Once they told me that Sergio Berni wanted to come together for the change and I said it seemed strange. Berni es parte de este gobierno, así que no es un tema para definir ni para conversar.He is part of a government that is not helping Argentina's progress.So I don't see it making decisions. Y, además, hay muchas cosas que todavía hay que analizar con las personas que el día de mañana puedan querer sumarse a Juntos por el Cambio.We need very convinced people about what we want to do.

- Do you worry that radicalism, from the incorporation of Facundo Manes as a figure of the party, has a more leading role in together for the change and disputes to the pro the presidential candidacy?

— Al revés, es muy importante que el radicalismo crezca porque crecemos todos ya que es parte de nuestra coalición. Estoy muy contenta de que el radicalismo se revitalice.It seems very important for together for change.

- Don't you care that you want to dispute the presidential candidacy?

- It's logical.Any party within a coalition will want to put your candidate for president.You can't go against logic.Why won't they want to do it?When one plays the semifinal match it is a step and then there is the final, which is against the other team, the real fight.But in that semifinal they will surely be the best and hopefully radicalism competes strongly because it helps us all.

- Among the comings and goings with the Government for the meeting with Martín Guzmán, Morales said: "There are those who want within our space that exploits everything".This was clearly interpreted as an allusion to Macri and you.Is that so, do you want everything to explode?

- I didn't feel it as an allusion to me or Macri. Yo no quiero que explote nada.When he has had explosions, Argentina has gone wrong and the Argentines have lost a lot.It is not good for anyone.

- You said these days that in 2019 they had lost the elections because "they kept ideas in the closet".What ideas they kept and why did they do it?

- Many things were the product of an analysis that we had to have more political power and put a lot of effort to win the 2017 elections. Y cuando miramos para atrás, en esos dos años nos faltaban hacer reformas como, por ejemplo, una reforma social.We maintained a social policy very similar to what was there and that did not contribute to the cultural change we needed to do.We also lacked to advance on labor changes that allowed 40% of those who worked in informality could enter the market. Entonces nos faltaron cosas, quizá con la idea de que se iban a hacer después de la elección para tener más poder político.And the political power is what one has when he wins an election and then the one with the support of society.

- Are you willing to make a job reform?Should we eliminate compensation for dismissal?

— Estamos trabajando sobre cambios laborales que ayuden al empleo para que pueda haber más facilidad para contratar y para conseguir trabajo.For that we need a series of measures ranging from facilitation for enterprises to hiring.Compensation can go to an account so that entrepreneurs do not have to sell businesses to pay them.A system that does not cancel compensation but cuotifies it. Esos cambios los vamos a hacer porque son necesarios en la Argentina.We know that there will be opposition, but we are willing to give that fight.And people, when they see that he has a job, who has a salary that allows him to start fulfilling his dream, will strongly support the changes we are going to make.

- How do these labor changes achieve?Negotiating or facing the trade union establishment?

— Todo aquel que quiera ayudar y que entienda que hay que llevar a la realidad los cambios es bienvenido. Nadie en el privilegio de tener cada vez menos trabajadores en blanco, pero los sindicatos con dinero y trabajadores cada vez hay menos sindicalizados.Thus no union wins.We do not have an anti -union ideology.What we want is a change because they are the ones that make this great dream of the middle class country that we want for Argentina.It is the project and together for change.

- A government of together for change must boost changes through a more gradualist policy, as happened in the management of Macri, or with fast and thorough decisions?

— A fondo, no tengo la menor duda.You have to show all the letters, all the changes, in the first moment. El pacto federal que hay que hacer.The taxes to be repealed national, provincial and municipal.The rules that work that Argentina works.The logistics costs that are very expensive to be competitive.A concrete plan what are you going to do with public companies that only have deficits. Todo eso lo tenés que presentar de entrada.And play strongly.

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